Ripped Off Consumer 1 - Transmission Shop 0

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
02/19/2016 at 10:30 • Filed to: None

Many people who call my office have legal problems for which it would not be cost-effective to hire an attorney. I often tell them they can pursue their claim in Small Claims Court if they so choose. Frank called to tell me he took my advice and won.

Frank first called me in December and wished me a Happy Festivus . He also told me of the transmission problems he was having with his ‘02 Explorer. I’m not sure if it was the Festivus greeting or the soft spot I have in my heart for Explorers, but I spent a bit of time on the phone with him. (His last name is not Costanza , BTW.)

He had brought his truck to a transmission shop in Wayne County and I recognized the name: I had sued them before. They had quoted him a price for a trans repair but had not put it in writing. After they tore down his trans they called him with the news. The cost to repair the trans had jumped from the $1,100 range up to $2,300. When he balked, they told him he would have to pay $450 to get his truck back.

I pointed out to Frank that the actions he described violated the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and that if he went !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! on his own, he could handle it and the case was pretty clear cut. I told Frank the citation for the law and he said he would call me with an update.

It wasn’t all smooth sailing. At his first hearing before a magistrate, Frank didn’t get a chance to get into the law. The transmission shop owner told the court that this is how he always does business and the magistrate ruled against Frank. But Frank, being one who observes !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , filed an appeal. And when he got in front of a judge, the judge read the law which Frank had brought with him. And then ruled in his favor.

Frank now has a Judgment against the transmission shop for the $450 plus the costs of filing the action. I told him to call me in a few weeks if the judgment isn’t satisfied and I can walk him through the steps to make a defendant want to pay a judgment. I know the season of Festivus is behind us now but I like to think this was all part of a larger Festivus Miracle. Now, perhaps, it is time to take down the Festivus Pole.

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 24 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

DISCUSSION (100)

Salvatore Corasaniti > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 10:38

Kinja'd!!!

I hope Frank brings the pain.

PartyPooper2012 > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 10:40

Steve will not be on the list for Airing of the Grievances. Frank has no issues with Steve

SteveLehto > PartyPooper2012
02/19/2016 at 10:41

Don’t be so hasty. There’s a long year ahead of us.

LostMyOldPasswordAgain > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 10:44

The transmission shop owner told the court that this is how he always does business and the magistrate ruled against Frank.

How was this even allowed to happen? I mean, is business as usual enough to rule against the consumer in small claims even if it was against the law?

P.S. thanks for your articles and legal insight. I hope to never put them into practice

SteveLehto > LostMyOldPasswordAgain
02/19/2016 at 10:46

Yes, this happens all the time at the lower levels (magistrates and so on). It’s scary, considering the fact that they should be following actual LAWS and whatnot.

brothermichigan > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 10:50

I can walk him through the steps to make a defendant want to pay a judgment.

I need to figure these steps out. Trying to get a shady transmission shop to pay out on my own settlement right now...

Dolemite > LostMyOldPasswordAgain
02/19/2016 at 10:51

“Rippin’ off people is hows I always does business, what’s the big whoop?” “You make a compelling argument. I rule in your favor. Godspeed shifty shop owner!”

PartyPooper2012 > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 10:52

Some say this year will be longer than the past 3 or the next 3 years. This is the longest year out of the 7 I mentioned

BobWellington > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 10:53

I wish people would stop going to places like this and run them out of business. Does the place have any reviews on Yelp or the like? I tried to see if I could figure out which place it is based on reviews. There’s a place with two letters with “&” between them in the name that seems like it might match up, but that’s only based on one review.

jimmy-buffett > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 10:53

At his first hearing before a magistrate, Frank didn’t get a chance to get into the law.

And once he could cite the law, the magistrate’s ruling was overturned on appeal. Why force the consumer into this 2-step process?

In the corporate world, the magistrate’s rulings would be evaluated over time to see how often they’re overturned on appeal. And Frank’s specific grievance could be written down somewhere as a “wtf?” in his annual review.

Something tells me that there is no similar review/audit/performance evaluation process for the magistrate in question?

p.s. big fan, you rock Steve

meatatarian > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 10:54

Are you sure you’re a real attorney? Providing advice to people in need free of charge?!

Chariotoflove > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 10:54

You could have put the guy off or told him you’d have to charge him for your time and advice, but instead you helped out a guy in need and made the world a slightly better place. You done good, Councilor.

jimz > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 10:57

the owner of this restaurant in Plymouth is Jerry Costanza.

Another Festivus miracle!

jimz > PartyPooper2012
02/19/2016 at 10:58

it was scary how closely Frank and Estelle Costanza resembled my grandparents.

LionelEssrog > LostMyOldPasswordAgain
02/19/2016 at 10:58

Unfortunately (in PA at least) it’s an elected position and a law degree isn’t a requirement for the job.

SteveLehto > brothermichigan
02/19/2016 at 10:59

Settlement or Judgment?

SteveLehto > PartyPooper2012
02/19/2016 at 10:59

The Reason Why Will Make You Drop Your JAW!

PartyPooper2012 > jimz
02/19/2016 at 11:00

I suppose George could have named his child Jim

Big Block I-4 > LionelEssrog
02/19/2016 at 11:00

Haha, are you in the Philly area? If so, how about those traffic court judges, they were a little loose around the edges when laws were concerned huh?

SteveLehto > BobWellington
02/19/2016 at 11:00

It is a chain. And from what I can tell, this is how the chain does business.

shitheelandtoe > Dolemite
02/19/2016 at 11:00

I'll allow that.

VashVashVash > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:01

Can someone clarify what it was that the shop owner did that is against the law? Is he obligated to complete the repair for the original quote even if it turns out to be a bigger problem than he thought, or is it that he has to put the vehicle back together at a loss if they client refuses repair once the cost goes up?

SteveLehto > jimmy-buffett
02/19/2016 at 11:01

You are correct. And very few people know enough about what goes on in the courts to vote for the candidates in an educated fashion.

Big Block I-4 > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:01

Hey there Steve, laws are just suggestions, you should know this you are a LAWyer. Just ask Scalia, wait NVM don’t.

Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) > PartyPooper2012
02/19/2016 at 11:02

I plan do do a lot with my extra day!

PartyPooper2012 > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:02

Attorney at law with a sense of humor.

Kinja'd!!!

SteveLehto > meatatarian
02/19/2016 at 11:02

Yes, I’m like the guy handing out free samples . . . hoping to get you hooked.

Actually, I talk to a LOT of people and tell them to try this. I just don’t always find out the outcome. Here, when Frank called back, I asked him if it was OK for me to write it up and he said Sure.

brothermichigan > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:03

A settlement, because I’m a pushover.

Peptide > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:04

I have to say that, without knowing the details of this particular transaction, automatic transmission repair is most difficult segment of the business to operate in. Customers will call everyone in the area for the ‘best price’, which the shop needs to make attractive to get them to bring their car in, often to find that a given transmission needs more than a basic seals/clutches/converter repair. It’s not uncommon for shafts to be galled, planetary gear sets worn and any manner of electronic woes, which now need to be related to the customer in such a way as to convince them that additional parts are need and are that they are not being defrauded.

This is exactly why I shied away from trans repairs when I owned garages, as it’s a low-margin business by definition and even your regular customers wonder if they’re getting ripped off. It doesn’t help that there are genuine ‘bad apples’ that will tell a potential customer anything to get them into the door and sell them things that they don’t need. The transmission repair industry is rife with predatory operations and has contributed to a taint across the entire industry.

The best practice is, in my opinion, to quote a diagnostic removal/inspection (if internal problems are suspected) and a typical range of prices. The work order should also contain a written statement that specifies what happens if the customer elects not to have the transmission repaired, including reassembly costs and the fact that the transmission might not function at all after reassembly. This addresses 257.1332, which covers declined repairs:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ifrqzoaewnk…

PartyPooper2012 > Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz)
02/19/2016 at 11:04

That day is on a Monday. Technically speaking, on average, that day does not exist... soooo we don’t have to go to work. You won’t be missing anything

SteveLehto > VashVashVash
02/19/2016 at 11:05

I love it when the trans shops check in and pretend that the consumer is in the wrong.

Under MICH law, the shop must put their estimate in writing and give that to the consumer (which they failed to do) and then not exceed the estimate by more than 10% without getting permission from the consumer in advance.

This is the oldest scam in the world: lie to them to get them to leave the car, and then tear it apart and hold it hostage for more money. But I suspect you already know that.

LionelEssrog > Big Block I-4
02/19/2016 at 11:05

I’m in western PA but I had a bad experience with a former small town police captain that became a magistrate. His interpretation of the law was, as you say “loose.” Fuck that guy.

drdude > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:05

Good for Frank on actually following through this.

The reason shops like this get off doing it over and over, is that no one wants to go through the effort to persue legal action on their own... if a lawyer isnt willing (or it isnt economical) to help, you have to have the drive to do it yourself.

SteveLehto > brothermichigan
02/19/2016 at 11:06

If it is signed and so on, you have to give them some time to pay. If they don’t, you will have to go into court and see if the court will help you (assuming this is the result of a lawsuit).

SteveLehto > Peptide
02/19/2016 at 11:07

Yes. That is the law. Which this guy did not follow.

BigBlock440 > BobWellington
02/19/2016 at 11:07

Internet activists have made yelp reviews worthless. Like the guy that shot the lion, according to yelp, nobody would ever go there. IDGAF what his hobbies are, I just want to know if he’ll fix my overbite*.

*If I lived there. And had an overbite.

graham > VashVashVash
02/19/2016 at 11:08

It sounds like the shop gave him a verbal quote, refused to honor it, and then required payment for work already performed. I’m not a lawyer, but it appears to violate most of the provisions of the law Steve referenced: http://tinyurl.com/zk7q6kk

Anscoflex-II > VashVashVash
02/19/2016 at 11:08

I believe the $450 ransom to get his un-repaired vehicle back is illegal. Chances are the shop wasn’t going to put anything back together if the repair was refused.

Daryl > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:11

Lower magistrates and Justice of the Peace don’t have to be educated in the law. They just have to be elected. So it’s not a big surprise when some of them don’t know it.

What I’ve found some shops like to do is bid you for one thing, then tack on extra “needed” things without authorization. I had a repair shop try that with me. I had them rebuild my transmission. While it was down, I wanted them to go ahead and swap out my timing belt. When I went to get the car, they also added a charge for a new oil pump, oil gasket, head gasket, rings, oil change, and “cleaning” the heads. We argued back and forth. I told them I didn’t authorize anything other than the timing belt and transmission work. I wanted to see the old rings, head gasket, oil gasket, pump, etc. I threatened to file a claim against them if they didn’t release my car. They ended up dropping it and gave me a 10 percent discount to shut me up.

brothermichigan > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:12

It was a settlement as a result of a lawsuit and it is signed by all parties. It has been almost six months now and the shop just keeps ducking me. I’m prepared to take the shop back to court, but I no longer live in the state, so I need to contact the court to see what my options are.

BobWellington > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:12

Ah, ok. I try to stay away from chains because they tend to be all about the almighty dollar, and this is just another example.

BobWellington > BigBlock440
02/19/2016 at 11:12

Sure, but I don’t think most places reviewed on Yelp suffer from such a problem.

Peptide > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:13

Then shame on him; too many trans shops don’t it the right way...

SteveLehto > Daryl
02/19/2016 at 11:14

In Michigan they need to have a law degree. It might be different elsewhere. What is really going on most of the time is that the courts are nice to businesses since they see them more often (which is counter intuituive). And a lot of people think that businesses are the backbone of the community - even the bad ones.

A SPOOKY GHOST! > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:14

Steve, I’m wondering if you ever have or ever will write something about starting up your own practice. I know this isn’t Lawopnik, but still.

Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:15

Now I want to know if it’s a big chain, or like a local chain. Mostly cuz, with the national chain I usually go to, while I haven’t always had the greatest of service, I usually don’t feel like they’re actively ripping me off. Hell, the one closest to me (I usually use one of two - one close to where I live, and one close to where I work), they know me enough by now that they’ll try and work with me on at least some of the major repairs (e.g., I had a wheel bearing they replaced - but they used the cheaper replacement, and it was shot PDQ as well, so they looked to warranty it out even though by rights it was over the time limit, and got me a break on the whole deal - so, not happy that they used a crap one in the first place [admittedly, probably trying to save me money], but at least they didn’t just shrug and go “too bad so sad” on the second repair).

SteveLehto > A SPOOKY GHOST!
02/19/2016 at 11:16

Not sure if there are enough readers it will interest. However, if anyone out there has questions, email me directly. I’m just FULL of free advice. Just a matter of if you have the endurance to put up with it. Lehto@kennon.com

schwinn8 > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:17

This really infuriates me about our current “legal system”. The fact that he had to go through a Magistrate who clearly doesn’t even know the law is baffling... why is this Magistrate allowed to rule this way and why is he/she not held accountable for their incompetence? The legal system should know the law... after all, they are supposed to be passing judgements based on it... yet they often don’t and just screw over the “less represented” person instead. So much for “justice is blind” in that sense, too!

I had a similar case in court against my heating oil company that I lost - the judge simply didn’t listen to a word I said and literally said he only cared “about the money”. How are people in the courts allowed to say/do this at all!?

The system is clearly broken, and we just keep letting this happen. Awful.

SteveLehto > schwinn8
02/19/2016 at 11:18

I’ve had a judge tell me they didn’t like a law (the quote was “I hate the U.C.C.”) and might not follow it. I’ve also seen (many times) Judges rule and say, “Take it up on appeal” knowing full well they’d be reversed on appeal.

The system is broken.

PartyPooper2012 > meatatarian
02/19/2016 at 11:19

As a drug dealer who is just starting out - first bump is always free. I don’t actually know if it’s true. I use this line for my BBQ. Then people get hooked and never leave my backyard

Big Block I-4 > LionelEssrog
02/19/2016 at 11:19

Well in Philly 6 of the traffic court judges where brought up on federal charges for “ticket fixing” they were essentially just doing whatever they wanted and letting people off for, and I quote, “seafood, car work and porn, among other things”.

In short, a lot of these small time judges, especially elected ones are bullshit as you well know.

Daryl > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:22

In Texas, the Justice of the Peace is just someone that ran for the office. I’ve literally seen a mailman serve as a JP. The same thing can be said for the county coroner. For a while, they had a coroner who was a 19 year old kid fresh out of High School who was INTENDING to go to the local community college (that was about 15 years ago). I’m all for people showing initiative, but I really don’t want my coroner to be eligible to film a TV show called “CSI: Sweet Valley High” or a JP who could preside over “Law & Order: Postal Edition.” Actually, the JP side isn’t that bad. Most of them get pretty versed in traffic law, since that’s the most common case they deal with. With other areas, you just have to go in knowing you’re going to have to show them what you’re referencing.

Xyl0c41n3 > Peptide
02/19/2016 at 11:24

Well, you sound like a pretty reputable mechanic, and I bet your customers appreciated you very well for it, even if you didn’t work on transmissions.

In college I drove a family hand-me-down Buick LeSabre. By the time it finally got to me, first through third gears were slipping VERY badly. Hundreds of miles away from home, there wasn’t really anyone I could call or ask for advice about reputable shops in the area. I took a chance and went to through the phone book and went with the first shop that answered my call.

I lucked out big time. The guy I found had been running his transmission shop for about 30 years at that point. He ran the shop, his wife did the bookkeeping. He treated me fairly, and didn’t treat me like an idiot just because I was a woman (and, back then, an especially naive one when it came to anything automotive). He was always willing to explain the hows and whys of what he did to my car, and he paid attention to the little things. Like, he would reset the clock in my car, reset the seat to the position I had had it in, and returned the radio to the volume it had been at previously.

When other things started failing in the car (the electronics went to shit), he very graciously took a look at it, even though he didn’t do those types of repairs, and told me what I could expect to hear from the mechanic at the dealership I wound up taking it to. In other words, he gave me an idea of what repairs the car needed so that I wouldn’t be fleeced by a disreputable mechanic.

Best part was, he and his wife had a shop dog that would wander between the office and the garage. I’ve never had a bad experience at a small business that has shop dogs/cats/both. That man was awesome.

The-Guy-They-Warned-You-About > PartyPooper2012
02/19/2016 at 11:24

Absolutely. (^_^)

Actually I know a handful of lawyers who the Shakespearean quote does not apply.

(Yes, I know that the quote in Henry VI, Part II, Act IV, Scene 2 does not imply that the lawyers are the scourge of society, but rather the guardians of revolution. However, I defer to the common misuse of the quote in popular culture.)

“First thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers.”

One key about this is that legislators at all levels are usually legally viewed as lawyers these days. So, in the case of modern society it is even more fitting a statement for the support of revolution.

Chairman Kaga > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:24

Kinja'd!!!

SteveLehto > Daryl
02/19/2016 at 11:25

That used to be true here on both counts. As for medical examiners, the law used to say that anyone could be a coroner and if a case was tricky, they’d call a coroner’s jury (again, no training required) and this group would then determine a cause of death. Caused bad things to happen when the group would - for political reasons - rule that a murder victim died accidentally and so on.

I know about this because of a book I wrote where the coroner played a major role in covering up a crime (The Italian Hall disaster).

SteveLehto > Chairman Kaga
02/19/2016 at 11:26

The best part of that is the dumb look on Kramer’s face - when he starts to realize that no one else sees the “miracle” he does.

JimInRadfordVA > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:26

As was mentioned, JPs and Magistrates are often elected positions. Businesses and business groups are more likely to contribute money in a local race. In order to not infuriate the business electorate they will often kick the can down the road- “Take it up on appeal”.

“Hey, Joe, I did everything I could. I ruled in your favor, but the darn appeals court overruled me!”

SteveLehto > JimInRadfordVA
02/19/2016 at 11:27

And some of the pro-business rulings I have seen were among the worst. I have even gone into court and wondered why the defense attorney was so comfortable with such a dog of a case. (It was because of the cozy relationship with the local judge).

dustynnguyendood > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:28

Sounds a lot like my first (and only) experience with a trans shop. Came in for a trans service, hoping it would buy some time in my ‘79 Mustangs C4 trans.

The pan was dropped and “significant” material was found in the pan. Authorized a $150 (this was ‘86) teardown and got a call the next day quoting a $1200 rebuild.

Told them I couldn’t afford that - the price was dropped to $900 and I still said no, it then went to $750 - still too much for this student. It would be another $150 to reassemble the trans and reinstall. Told them to just throw the parts in the back and I’d come and get it.

They called me back 10 minutes later and offered me the “commercial” price of $450 which I decided to accept. The engine blew about 6 months later so no idea how long that trans would have lasted.

ShutUpandShift > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:28

Well good for him! He really demonstrated his feats of strength !

SteveLehto > dustynnguyendood
02/19/2016 at 11:29

Funny how that works. I’ve heard a variation of that so many times it’s obviously how they do business. Why would they so quickly drop their asking price if that price was legitimate?

jmedarts > schwinn8
02/19/2016 at 11:30

Whoa there! The law means what it says? Officials should be aware of it and follow it?!?! This is a GAWKER site pal - the law means what they want it to mean, when they damn well want it to. Please take your rational thoughts and logic, whoops, sorry, I mean privilege, elsewhere.

skeffles > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:33

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

And then the shop owner went out for a dring with his good buddy the magistrate? I assume that is how that sentence ends anyway.

A SPOOKY GHOST! > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:34

Much appreciated. I always enjoy your articles here.

JimInRadfordVA > brothermichigan
02/19/2016 at 11:34

“Yo, Rocco, Vinnie, go help the Judge find his checkbook.”

The Stig's graphic designer cousin > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:36

Maybe they figured “hey, it works for the medical+insurance industry, why not us”.

2009 was a bad year for me. I had 5 kidney stones and 3 surguries for said stones. Total medical bills that year topped $70k. I had to pay about $1500 out of pocket, insurance covered around $20k, and the remaining ~$48k just went away.

Doug > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:37

Not really 100 %related to repair shops, but wanted to mention that sometimes just taking a small matter to court or small claims can be the best thing, even if you are “technically” in the wrong. Case in point:

My ex-wife and I had bought a brand new vehicle. Since the vehicle we bought was a “leftover” (it was a 2002 model we bought in February of 2003) I noticed the inspection sticker was set to expire in two months. I mentioned this to the dealer who proceeded to include a new inspection and sticker at no cost with the sale. We picked up the car and drove off. Two months later we were pulled over by a state trooper and were fined for the inspection being expired. I explained the situation to the officer but we were fined anyway.

The first thing I did was contact the dealer who handled the situation immediately by inspecting the car, replacing the sticker, and providing me with free lifetime oil changes for as long as I owned the car. As for the ticket, I paid the fine but pleaded “not guilty” and a court date was set. The judge ruled in my favor due to the documentation I had received from the dealer when I purchased the car stating it would be inspected with a new sticker. While yes I should have noticed the inspection sticker when I picked the car up or any other time I walked by it, I didn’t; so technically I was driving illegally. The officer tried to argue with the judge (which was not something he probably should have done) but in the end the judge stated that while my sticker was in fact expired, since I had purchased the car new and had documentation that stated it was inspected he was ruling in my favor (the part where the officer then continued to argue was probably one of the funniest exchanges I have ever seen).

In the end the car was inspected and my fine/fees were refunded. If I had not pursued this, I would have been out about $150 plus an inspection. As a side note, almost a year later I was able to turn the car in due to lemon laws and the dealership I purchased the vehicle from went under a few years after that.

tpw_rules > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:37

This is off topic but I have a question about recalls. I have a 2003 Saab 9-3 which is worth about $1 cause it’s a salvage title from a dead manufacturer. Assuming Takata gets around to making an airbag for it before it gets totaled again, are GM obligated to replace it? Am I lower priority or something?

Stygian Blue > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:39

I wonder if a similar law exists in other states?

SteveLehto > Stygian Blue
02/19/2016 at 11:40

This one I am not so sure about. I am sure some states have it - just not sure which ones or what they would call it.

Lab Ninja > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:43

Why don't we out the name of the shop so people can avoid it?

TechWeasel > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:43

So the net result is that he got the $450 he paid to bail out his truck back, but nothing to compensate him for his time and trouble fighting to get what he shouldn’t have had to pay in the first place? I guess it’s a moral victory, but I am guessing he could have earned more than $450 with the time he spent, having to go to small claims twice. That sucks.

SteveLehto > Lab Ninja
02/19/2016 at 11:45

The only reservation I have is that I got the story from someone but I was not there. And since I did not ask the transmission shop for their side of it, I wouldn’t think it completely fair to do so.

I’m not a “journalist” in that sense of the word but I have some guidelines I go by (i.e. gut instinct).

matthewp > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:46

I work in a transmission shop, and I want to say not all of us work this way. Transmissions have many ways in which they can fail, and the cost of repairs can vary greatly depending on parts damage. Some shops, presumably this one, will quote the lowest possible cost in order to get you in the door, fully knowing there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell it just needs new gaskets and fluid. Several shops I am familiar with will do that, and some have even been prosecuted for installing used transmissions but charging for a rebuild.

We try not to quote prices to customers until we have at least done our initial diagnosis. This will help us, without tearing the car apart, determine whether the car needs a full rebuild, or maybe just a valve-body or other minor repair such as a solenoid, sensor, etc. Without looking at the car, the repairs could range from “It needs a sensor, $200.00" to “A grenade went off in there, $3,200.00"

Once we have done our diagnostic work, we usually quote the repairs with 2-3 options and allow the customer to decide whether they want us to rebuild the transmission, replace it with a used unit, or replace it with a factory-remanufactured transmission. We quote our rebuilds as a price range because until we open it up, we don’t know the extent of parts damage, but we can estimate fairly well. We might quote $2000-2400 depending on damage, or something along those lines.

We also back all of our repairs with a long-term warranty, 3 years, 100k miles so that our customers can have peace-of-mind that they are getting quality.

I hate that these shady shops will tarnish an entire industry. It really makes it hard for those of us who are honest to build trust with a customer. However, once we earn a customer’s trust, they tend to be very loyal to us and utilize us for all their vehicle needs. A lot of shops don’t care about getting the customer to come back a second time, so they stick it to customers as much as they can

SteveLehto > TechWeasel
02/19/2016 at 11:46

That is one of the major drawbacks to going to court. You can “win” but waste a lot of time in the process. If Time is Money, then you see the problem.

Theoretically, an attorney could have taken this case and gotten attorney fees for pursuing it but - I have tried this before and run into judges who don’t believe in awarding full fees for such a “small” case. And guess what? You have to take THAT up on appeal . . .

SteveLehto > matthewp
02/19/2016 at 11:48

I concur. It’s the bad ones that tarnish the whole industry. And there are shops that simply follow the law. I suspect that it is the shadier ones who scrap harder for business (because they get no repeat business) and end up in a slow declining spiral. Cut more corners, anger more customers . . .

Jinjuku > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:48

Since 98' we’ve been in court 5 times with business owners who misrepresented the chain of events so badly that is was an overt lie and the business owner didn’t see the lie for what it was.

What was awesome is when they proceeded to lie to the magistrate. I just sat back where the magistrate went back to either the emails or recorded phone calls and caught them in the lie. He asked the defendant a simple question about the discrepancy and immediately said you’ll have my decision with in two weeks.

I love defendants that torpedo their own case.

wlb50 > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:49

In CA they tried to eliminate this scam by requiring shop owners to issue a written estimate. If upon later inspection the estimate is exceeded by at least 10% they have to get the OK by the customer either in person or by phone.

Naturally this doesn’t prevent an unscrupulous shop from low balling an estimate then calling the customer with the bad news.

Then there are unscrupulous customers who try to use these laws to their advantage. There was a woman who had a factory remanufactured engine installed and some 12 months later through neglect the engine was destroyed (can’t remember the circumstances — ran out of oil?)

Anyway she wants a new engine and the shop owner said that the warranty was voided. She claimed that she never received the warranty booklet but the shop owner said that he gave it to her..

Bottom line our Bureau of Automotive Repair (which your client would have approached had be been in CA) - ruled that the ship owner owed her a new engine because he did not note on the invoice that she received a warranty booklet. He was out $5,000 or so.

I think what all this comes down to is if the shop owner is dishonest he will find ways of circumventing the law, and to do your internet research before giving any shop a lot of money.

In the transmission case I can certainly see a situation where the problems were greater than initially suspected and he had to revise the (verbal) estimate - but if this were a regular occurrence (had a house handyman like that - he’d always revise his verbal estimate to about double) - anyway check the reviews first.

Cpages2 > dustynnguyendood
02/19/2016 at 11:51

Same exact thing happened to me when I was in my first year of college. Car was slipping (automatic), took into trans shop and waiting. 2 hours later they come in with pan and its full of sludge/metal bits. Tell em they want 1500 to rebuild it. NOPE... How about 1200? CANT AFFORD IT. They leave, manager comes back and says today only $900. I say no still, they tell me its $100 to put it all back and fill up. But if I can give them 400$ now and $400 next week they will rebuild it. Still refused, just felt like such a scam.

hellhog > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:54

But you’ve sued them before, though right? So it’s not as if this is coming completely out of the blue.

SteveLehto > hellhog
02/19/2016 at 11:55

They might be under new ownership. One thing I have discovered is that these shops change hands and change owners so often, they can often claim that the previous bad acts were “someone else.”

Travis M. Cotton > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:55

Good Guy Steve helps Good Guy Frank for free. God there is hope for this country yet.

Gonemad > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 11:56

He had to fight to get his truck back... but was it still broken, or he earned a new transmission or repair in the process?

Not just the headache of suing the bastards, but you still have a broken car, and probably will have to pay to tow it to a reputable repair shop?

dustynnguyendood > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 12:00

If I remember correctly I was told that the difference in prices was the warranty. $1200 was the nationwide 3 year unlimited mileage warranty, then the 1 year nationwide warranty and the commercial price I got was a 6 month warranty good only at that location

NorthernCarGuy > PartyPooper2012
02/19/2016 at 12:01

My brother was a lawyer (but he got better) and he and his colleagues all knew the best lawyer jokes. They made a point of always looking for new ones.

SteveLehto > Gonemad
02/19/2016 at 12:05

He got his truck back in the same condition he gave it to them in but they charged him $450. He sued and got that money back. He took the truck someplace else to get it fixed. Yes, a huge waste of time.

NITEMOVES > matthewp
02/19/2016 at 12:09

“Stickin it!!”

Kinja'd!!!

Bloody Han Solo > schwinn8
02/19/2016 at 12:11

I cannot tell you how much this is true. I recently finalized my divorce as Pro Se and it was mind boggiling to me what I had to PRESENT as EVIDENCE when the solution was already pre-determined before we walking into the courtroom.

The Justice system is a business...and that is sad.

matthewp > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 12:11

Definitely. In a way, though, once we work past the tarnished reputation from the other shops, their ineptness helps us build repeat customers just by being honest and providing quality. I think our warranty speaks for itself with new customers, and the service they get has them come back. We are full service with the exception of tires and bodywork, and a large percentage of our customers use us for every oil change even.

Side note, this is the first time I have ever been replied to by an author, and I think my first or second time out of the grey!

vwbeamer > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 12:26

Just had my transmission rebuilt for $850, Turbo 350 FTW!!!

Dest > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 12:39

At his first hearing before a magistrate, Frank didn’t get a chance to get into the law. The transmission shop owner told the court that this is how he always does business and the magistrate ruled against Frank.

Was the magistrate not even willing to listen to the law? Something seems fucked up about this part. Especially when the defendants position is that’s how he always does it!

SteveLehto > Dest
02/19/2016 at 12:40

But it happens all the time. Especially to litigants who are representing themselves. Shouldn’t happen but it does.

Dest > Dest
02/19/2016 at 12:41

Also I hope this guy leaves a review online. With the internet there’s no reason this type of behavior should go unnoticed and allow this shop to continue to exist.

Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) > PartyPooper2012
02/19/2016 at 12:41

I rarely do.

FromTheBackSeat > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 12:48

Not being a lawyer, I would think that (in simplistic terms) the hearing, it would be 1) Complainant states the ‘injury’ for the court (and I would assume in that statement cite the law being broken), 2) defendant could refute/defend against the claim, 3) magistrate would issue a ruling if no further clarification on either side is needed. It sounds like step 1 was skipped and just 2 and 3 were done. Further if that is as you say happening all the time, isn’t that in itself a violation of court proceedings?

SteveLehto > FromTheBackSeat
02/19/2016 at 12:50

Yes.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Tina Belcher > wlb50
02/19/2016 at 12:51

Michigan’s set up is pretty similar...we have a BAR, the 10% rule and written estimates, right to get the old parts back or inspect them if that’s not practical.

Gonemad > SteveLehto
02/19/2016 at 12:57

I got the $450 part. I didn’t get the part his truck was still broken after all that.

That sucked.

My Honda dealership had to tear my car apart to get to the speedometer sensor, that was throwing the check engine light up. Yes, the car ECU needs to know how fast you are going, to know for sure if the engine is OK.

They didn’t charge for the disassembly itself, but the repair was honestly charged.

BurgersAndFlies > BobWellington
02/19/2016 at 12:58

Take yelp with a grain of salt. People will rate 1 stars on Yelp for the dumbest things, and rate 5 stars for no reason what so ever.